{"id":2425,"date":"2017-04-05T12:02:39","date_gmt":"2017-04-05T11:02:39","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.lookingatnothing.com\/?p=2425"},"modified":"2019-06-05T13:07:32","modified_gmt":"2019-06-05T12:07:32","slug":"flux-capacities-and-beam-densities","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/index.php\/archives\/2425","title":{"rendered":"Flux capacities and beam densities"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>A while ago on Twitter, there was a question doing the rounds about how much synchrotrons and lab sources really differ in flux. While synchrotrons generally are interested in figuring that out (since it&#8217;s their selling point), information on laboratories is a little harder (but not impossible) to find&#8230;<!--more--><\/p>\n<h3>Literature comparison<\/h3>\n<p>In published information on beamlines (on their sites as well as in papers), we find stated fluxes of:<\/p>\n<div class=\"page\" title=\"Page 8\">\n<div class=\"layoutArea\">\n<div class=\"column\">\n<ul>\n<li>5e12 ph\/s (<a href=\"http:\/\/dx.doi.org\/10.1107\/S2059798316017174\">Kirby-2016<\/a>), beam size 130 x 250 \u00b5m FWHM, 12 keV, Australian synchrotron <a href=\"http:\/\/www.synchrotron.org.au\/aussyncbeamlines\/saxswaxs\">SAXS\/WAXS<\/a>. That translates to 1.54e14 ph\/s\/mm^2<\/li>\n<li>ESRF&#8217;s flagship (or battleship) SAXS beamline <a href=\"http:\/\/www.esrf.eu\/home\/UsersAndScience\/Experiments\/CBS\/ID02.html\">ID02<\/a> states a flux on the order of 1e14 ph\/s over a beam of 200 x 400 \u00b5m at 12.4 keV. That translates to 1.25e15 ph\/s\/mm^2<\/li>\n<li>Diamond <a href=\"http:\/\/www.diamond.ac.uk\/Beamlines\/Soft-Condensed-Matter\/small-angle\/I22.html\">I22<\/a> gives a flux of 6e12 with a beam of 320 x 80 \u00b5m at 12.4 keV, translating to 1.95e14 ph\/s\/mm^2<\/li>\n<li>MAX-lab&#8217;s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.maxlab.lu.se\/node\/30\">I711<\/a> in 2009 (<a href=\"http:\/\/dx.doi.org\/10.1107\/S0909049509018986\">Knaapila-2009<\/a>) had a flux of 4e10 in a beam of 0.37 x 0.37 mm, translating to 2.92e11 ph\/s\/mm^2, although they may since have improved a bit, since their website now claims &#8220;&gt;1e11 ph\/s&#8221;.<\/li>\n<li>SLS&#8217;s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.psi.ch\/sls\/csaxs\/\">cSAXS<\/a> states 1e12 ph\/s at 11.2 keV, using a beam of 0.5 x 0.5 mm, translating to 4e12 ph\/s\/mm^2.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>So all of the beamlines at large synchrotrons seem to be delivering pretty much the same amount of photons, give or take an order of magnitude. How about laboratory instruments?<\/p>\n<p>This information is a bit harder to find. Even papers with very interesting titles like &#8220;SAXS instruments with slit collimation: investigation of resolution and flux&#8221; (<a href=\"http:\/\/dx.doi.org\/10.1107\/S002188980503966X\">Fritz-2005<\/a>) contain only relative fluxes. Jan-skov Pedersen has been presenting about flux numbers for his new metaljet-based SAXS, but as far as I can see, that is not published. Here&#8217;s what I can find:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Andras Wacha in 2014 <a href=\"http:\/\/dx.doi.org\/10.1107\/S1600576714019918\">published<\/a> a value for their <a href=\"http:\/\/credo.ttk.mta.hu\">CREDO<\/a> pinhole-SAXS with microfocus source: 165000 ph\/s at 8 keV, with a 0.7mm dia. beam at the sample position, translating to 4.3e5 ph\/s\/mm^2<\/li>\n<li>Jan-skov Pedersen <a href=\"https:\/\/doi.org\/10.1107\/S0021889804004170\">published<\/a> in 2004 a value of 1.9e7 ph\/s at 8 keV for the total beam in his instrument, although the beam diameter) at the sample position is quite unclear. Assuming 0.5 mm^2, this translates to 9.7e7 ph\/s\/mm^2. He has since upgraded to a metaljet, which may have increased that by another order of magnitude.<\/li>\n<li>Linda Br\u00fctzel in 2016 <a href=\"http:\/\/dx.doi.org\/10.1063\/1.4940936\">published<\/a> a rate of 2.5e6 ph\/s in a beam at the sample position of 1.2 x 1.2 mm (microfocus source), which translates to 1.7e6 ph\/s\/mm^2.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>So, some differences there, indicating a difference between labs and synchrotrons of about 1 million. However, we can also go one step further with some practical tests on our instruments.<\/p>\n<h3>Practical comparison<\/h3>\n<p>Andy Smith at I22 kindly provided us with recent information on his instrument for one of our experiments, with a flux on the sample of about 2.1e12 ph\/s in a beam of 0.1 x 0.3 mm, translating to 7e13 ph\/s\/mm^2. That is well in line with the website claims above.<\/p>\n<p>We did a test on our SAXSess recently, with a tube source and (line) focusing optics. We got 900000 ph\/s on an area of approximately 0.75 x 0.2 mm, translating to 6e6 ph\/s\/mm^2.<\/p>\n<p>During the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.lookingatnothing.com\/index.php\/archives\/2394\">CEA visit<\/a>, we also automatically got information on the flux of that microfocus source instrument, which delivered 2.9 ph\/s in a beam of 1.2 x 0.8 mm, which is 3e7 ph\/s\/mm^2.<\/p>\n<h3>Conclusion<\/h3>\n<figure id=\"attachment_2426\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-2426\" style=\"width: 300px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.lookingatnothing.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/Summary.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-medium wp-image-2426\" src=\"http:\/\/www.lookingatnothing.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/Summary-300x182.png\" alt=\"Comparison between lab and synchrotron flux densities\" width=\"300\" height=\"182\" srcset=\"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/Summary-300x182.png 300w, https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/Summary-768x466.png 768w, https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/Summary-1024x621.png 1024w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-2426\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Figure 1: Comparison between lab and synchrotron flux densities. Click to enlarge.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>The result is shown in Figure 1, demonstrating there is not just a difference of a million in flux density, but up to a factor of 1e10 between the different instruments! That is an enormous difference. However, one lab instrument in your institute is worth 10 inaccessible synchrotron instruments: If you have the time, and you have a well-optimized lab instrument, you can collect data that rivals the best synchrotrons. Measure overnight, or over the week-end, throughout the year, and take the time to fine-tune those data corrections and sample conditions to get that damn fine quality.<\/p>\n<p>If, however, you find yourself with a (small) sample that changes rapidly over time, then it is good to know you can go faster. Much, much faster: 10 orders of magnitude, to be precise. And that&#8217;s when you head to the synchrotron!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<div class=\"mh-excerpt\"><p>A while ago on Twitter, there was a question doing the rounds about how much synchrotrons and lab sources really differ in flux. While synchrotrons <a class=\"mh-excerpt-more\" href=\"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/index.php\/archives\/2425\" title=\"Flux capacities and beam densities\">[&#8230;]<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":2426,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"activitypub_content_warning":"","activitypub_content_visibility":"","activitypub_max_image_attachments":4,"activitypub_interaction_policy_quote":"anyone","activitypub_status":"","footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2425","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/04\/Summary.png","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p1gZ2v-D7","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2425","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2425"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2425\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2874,"href":"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2425\/revisions\/2874"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2426"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2425"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2425"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lookingatnothing.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2425"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}